[AmeerNuub]

Someone is making an edition of the video you made to make it more commercial. Here is a preview in french (some adjustements will be add : lasers sounds, and some other minor improvements) : http://www.gamefront.com/files/22216281/X3STARWARS.wmv# (an english version is under work).

I think this video, with good publicy on the net will be a good way to "attrack" more people here, and hopefully some 3d modeler . I can do the french part of that work, and maybe the german one. If you have some time to create topics explaining our project on the SW english internet it may help us. I can do that of course, but my english is not that good.


*2 : I think that neutral factions were buying ships due to commercial partnership. I mean, we can not do a global plan for so many different factions, each one was having its own history. The other problem is that I don't think that the galactic empire or the alliance were selling their military ships.
But the problem for us is not here. We already have a lot of work to do with a first list of 10 factions. Extra-factions could be ideas for more advanced versions of the mod, but I think we shouldn't see things too big for the first one.

Hehehe… that’s cool… but actually, I only released that earlier this week as a “pre-view” to what was coming, and I think it might be better not to “saturate the market” until the real commercial is complete. I don’t mind anyone doing their own versions, or adding language translations, etc., but it was just a preview and I will probably have the entire commercial completed this weekend.

2) I agree that we should try to keep things as simple as possible… one of the only things that I do have a strong opinion about is that it should be approached ( at first ) as simply as possible so that there can actually be a release, instead of just “fizzling out”. But I suppose I’m still not understanding something (I’m sorry )because it seems to me that the thoughts I’ve presented make things more simple, rather than the other ideas I’m seeing that make things more complex.

The way I understand it, X3 vanilla has several sides, races, factions, whatever one would like to call them. There are a couple that seem “pure good”, a couple that seem “pure evil” and the rest are fairly neutral. I’m guessing that whatever we make in terms of dynamics in gameplay is going to require a considerable similarity to the vanilla relations.

Here’s an idea that might help in understanding…

Perhaps there can be a list made to explain the faction conversion relations better… for example:

Category--------Faction--------Replacement

Good---------------Argon--------Rebel Alliance

Good---------------Goner--------Anzatan Commonwealth

Neutral-------------Teladi-------Hapes Consortium

Bad-----------------Xenon--------Galactic Empire


Of course this is not a complete list, and it is not my actual opinion or suggestions, it is not correct in races vs. factions, etc. it's just an example of a format to better understand the ideas for political replacements (for someone as stupid as me to understand better ). There seems to be much referencing to eras and story canon as a large consideration, but in my opinion, to adhere to a strict policy of not mixing different stories or time periods would add much complexity instead of keeping things simple… but maybe the above list would help me to see if I am wrong or missing something.

[Stilgar]

For *2. I totally understand what you are saying, but I don't think that is revelant for SW universe. Indeed good/bas doesn't perfectly fit with all the background. Yes the major war is about Rebel Alliance and Galactic Empire, however the whole galaxy wasn't involved in the conflict. For instance, the Hutt didn't care about them, they weren't neutral, they were just in their own "country". There is a more suitable system in X3 which is the relation system, in which we can more precisely integrate relations between each factions.

I prefer a system like this :

Faction ---- Relation number ---- Faction
Empire -------- - 1 ------------- Alliance
Alliance ------- + 0.6 ------------ Hapes
Empire ------- + 0.3 ------------ Chiss

Numbers are just exemples, but I don't really like the good/bad view, it's too simple.

[AmeerNuub]

Ok… if race relations and behaviors do not have to bear any resemblance to vanilla that’s cool, as I’m actually not that concerned with the subject… just the project success. But I’ve read that since such things are hard coded in the game, that the task of getting around that can be a constant nightmare, even for experienced coders, which seems to me to go against the “keeping it simple” principle. That point could be wrong, but that’s what I’ve seen so far.

And I do understand that several factions were not even involved in the great war and were “their own countries”… but the same could be said for many of the countries here on Earth during any war… and as such they are considered “neutral”. The Hutts were not involved, were isolated in the galaxy, and were their own “country”, but they were gangsters and most definitely “sinister” or “evil” as well as the Zahn Consortium, and most other factions I saw on the list. To me, that is what leads to less dynamics and things being one sided and too simple… but again I really am not too concerned with this area, and am just trying to raise the point to consider regarding the actual fundamental implementation of game mechanics.

[Stilgar]

The faction relation system is not hardcoded. What is difficult to handle with is mainly the core AI/game mechanics, but diplomacy is quite easy compared to that.

Concerning the "neutral/good/bad" that's revelant from a conflict point of view, but not from a diplomacy one. Indeed you can be neutral toward a conflict but for SW Hutts are ennemies to both Alliance and Galactic Empire. They are neutral to the conflict, they don't bother who will win, but Alliance and Empire are not welcome in their territories.

[AmeerNuub]

Ok... sounds good.

[Stilgar]

For you ships questions. I don't really what you were asking, about their quality models or about their interest for background ?

ArcHammer
I don't like it much how it looks in game. I've found great artwork that shows a totally different ship :

Spoiler:

For the background, well this ship is unique. It can be interesting to keep it (with better models/textures), but that's not a must-have.


Dianoga
It was not used after the Clone Wars, so irrevelant for us and ugly moreover.

Gozanti
It was used by almost the whole galaxy before Empire Rise and during the Empire period as a base for combatting against pirates. I think we should keep it for less rich factions.

Hetrinar
It was used by the Hapes Consortium, so useful for our background. The model seems ok ?

Hlaf
Used by Corellians for their own defenses. It's not a must have, it's better for background, but we can do without.

IRD
It is used by Corporate sector, one of our factions. We should keep it.

M3A
I had not found pictures to compare. I don't know what it looks "in real". No informations about its history either.

M12L
Useful for Hutts.

Pursuer
Really old ship fof Mandalorians. Used by Jango after Tatooine, but not really useful. As always the more ships we have the more the universe is "total".

TieWing
Ugly Spider
Ugly Tie
Xceptor
Y-Tie
Used by poor pirates that their using what they may take from abandonned ships. One or two should be ok for us, I don't think we need more.

Tracker
The little informations I've found said at this thime it was good for museum...


Uumfalh
Yorik ET
Yorik Grutta
Yorik Vec
Totally inaccurate for us, used by Yuuzhan Vong, many years after our mod.



Ps : ships are not installed on my X3, so I've look at them with a 3dviewer, that's why I hadn't make much comments about how they look good or not... I hope what I've done is what you were looking for

[AmeerNuub]

Yes, that's fine... As far as the M3A, I supplied a list with pictures of all the ships that included this one. As with most things, I'm not too strong in opinion, so the ones you agree to scrap and the ones you would like to keep sound good to me.

[Stilgar]

For the M3A I have no opinion, I let you decide

[AmeerNuub]

For the M3A I have no opinion, I let you decide

I just think it's uniteresting... I personally would rather not include ships that are so boring or weak in appearance, or abstract in their tiny inclusion in the SW universe. I understand "a full conversion, big universe would mean a huge diversity of ships", but I personally would rather duplicate good ships and see many occurrances of other more instantly recognizable SW ships so that it always "feels" like it is Star Wars. But as always, it's just my two cents and I'm not very firm there.

- - - - - - - - - - Nouveau message fusionné - - - - - - - - - -

A big hello to the Doc who has recently joined us... very nice to have you aboard!

If I remember correctly, you were counting 3D modelling as one of the biggest areas you suggest you may be able to help. Prudence leans toward taking things in small steps, as spreading effort and work abstractly and arbitrarily across some grand vision most often results in nothing ever getting done individually, in my experience. So I would guess right now in the ship catagory, if you would be inclined, a few 3D models would have the biggest impact and would really be appreciated. Even if the unfortunate yet common fate were to occur and the mod never goes as far as we envisioned, that work would still be a great asset to the community, being complete and valuable on it’s own apart from the mod.

Most ships for Star Wars have already been made by various people, with many different versions of the most popular ships from which to choose. However the need lies with a few very desired models which no one has yet made for X3.

Those include:
The Carrack Light Cruiser
The Tartan Cruiser
The Neutron Star-class Bulk Cruiser
The Invisible Hand
The DP-20 Frigate
The Alliance Assault Frigate MK II
The Acclamator Cruiser

There are many mods that currently exist for other games that contain models for these and many other ships you may want to work on. They may require more tweaking, code referencing, etc. but they may save you a lot of work, so that you at least aren’t starting from scratch (unless of course that’s how you prefer to work). The mod for Sins of a Solar Empire has many models that they are happy to share, there is a Freespace 2 Star Wars Mod that has a lot, etc. we just need these babies converted to X3!

Really, the IDEAL option that I would beg for is that they be taken all the way to completed .xsp form. That would really be a big help. But if we got nothing but correctly set up 3D models that X3 can use, then theoretically, we could take it from there if we had to.

Thanks again, and good to see you!

[DrRickMarshall]

Doctor Rick Marshall here,

AMEER NOOB!!!!!

Post the first five ships you want and then reorder the ships you want a model for in MAKE FIRST to MAKE LAST form. I'm sure I can make a model out of anything, its the texturing and the final design that will take longest. Star Wars was known for being a bit ... 'dirty' versus the pretty and clean starships of other movies, so that detail takes a bit. So give me that list in your order of what you want done and I'll get started. I mostly do the models on weekends though, as I am a teacher so during the week I don't have much time. Hopping on the forum is always quick and easy though, so if you need me to ever look at anything quickly, get on the Egosoft forums and send a PM to DrRickMarshall and I'll read it within 24 hours.

Also if you want me to set these up as the ship pack files that is fine, but you'll need to give me a list of information with the ship name to appear IN GAME, file name to appear on the spk (ie - ImpStarDestroyer.spk), a link to a picture (a link with a picture of blueprint form picture would be most helpful) to insure likeness, ship class (M1-M8, TS-TL), statistics (it should have 10GJs of shielding, min/max speed, etc). As for the weapons and turrets, I don't typically mess with those, but I can... Its a very EXACT piece of modelling since its so small, but it shouldn't be a problem - just tell me how many and where. Oh! And the ship description you feel should go with it.

EX:

File name:Imp Star Destroyer
Ship name: Star Destroyer - M1
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...yer-SWI125.jpg
30 fighters
5x1GJ shields
40m/s - 75m/s
8 weapons to each turret; 3 on front, 4 on right, 4 on left, 2 on top, 2 on bottom, 2 on back
The Imperial Star Destroyer was the mainstay of Imperial capital ships, housing enough men to take any station single-handedly. They had mulitple roles ranging from simple escort to shock assault against enemy fleets.


Edit: I'm not saying I'm only going to do five, just give me five as something for me to get started on, and we'll get to more later.

[AmeerNuub]

That sounds great there, Doc. Really, textured models that will show up in game are the only thing on which I in particular am really focused. As such, once a dry textured model that shows up well in game is available, changing all of the attributes, classifications, descriptions, HUD names, etc. can be very easily tweaked by myself or anyone from that point after all the suggestions and ideas for what they should be are brainstormed.

That being the case, the only thing left would be names and pictures and which priority. All the pre-debate attributes and details can be arbitrary or whatever you would like, as I'm sure your ideas and suggestions for what they should be would be of the utmost quality and authority in the first place. And really, the order and priority can be whatever order you choose from the list / what you are most interested to start with.

Of course, if you prefer, it would be a pleasure to supply you with exactly what you asked in precisely the format you asked it as well, just let me know. Some people have a very specific way they prefer to work, and that's completely ok. I just think that unless that is your preference, you can just run with it how you like.

Here's a starting list with pics.


The Carrack Light Cruiser

http://fortitude.dunkklar.org/IMG/jpg/Carrack_egvv.jpg


The Tartan Cruiser

http://www.bwafer.com/starwars/images/Tartan.jpg



The Alliance Assault Frigate MK II

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...igate_MkII.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...s_frig_mk2.jpg

The Neutron Star-class Bulk Cruiser

http://img.swcombine.com/ships/12/large.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...lk_cruiser.jpg


The DP-20 Frigate

http://d6holocron.com/wiki/images/th...x-Cgunship.jpg

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__...unship-SWR.png


Again, I think some format of model for these and many others you may be more interested in can be found in other mods. I think the one from Sins of a Solar Empire has all the models in one folder when you download the mod.

http://sins.imperial.cc/im/

[DrRickMarshall]

Doctor Rick Marshall again,

Excellent, I'll start on the Carack Light Cruiser Friday after work then. I'll let you know when the model is finished and we'll go from there on what you want done next.

[Stilgar]

Again, I think some format of model for these and many others you may be more interested in can be found in other mods. I think the one from Sins of a Solar Empire has all the models in one folder when you download the mod.

http://sins.imperial.cc/im/

Aren't SoaSE models too less with polygons for X3 ?

[AmeerNuub]

Aren't SoaSE models too less with polygons for X3 ?

Yeah, not knowing much about modeling, I didn't know if that was going to be too much of an issue. Those models actually look pretty good when zoomed in and I thought that there might be a way to at least just use it as a base to save a little time and increase the polygons from there. I've done a very limited amount of 3D modeling (in AutoCAD) and that is what happens with various automatic features and commands like "smooth" etc. But I could be completely off base.

[Stilgar]

I can't help you, the only ability I have with 3D is crashing files that were working before...